Posting here rather than email to not be "spamming" folks.
The only thing I have left in my house that uses gas is my kitchen range, and I seldom use that anymore. I rely mostly on my instant pot and my microwave for cooking. My gas bill every month is about $24. It didn't seem to me like I was using that much gas, so I studied it up on my bill. Only about $5 of that $24 has actually been for gas. The other charges are fixed miscellaneous charges and taxes.
So I would like to not be using gas at all, and I am looking forward to the day when I call PSE up and tell them to come shut it off. I am in somewhat of a quandary however, and I would love to get other people’s thoughts. I've studied up on induction stoves, and they seem superior to either gas or traditional electric stoves in just about every regard. However, the least expensive decent induction stoves I can find are around $1500 and they go up from there. Plus I'm going to have to buy new pots and pans that will work on the induction stove. And what do I do with my old stove, the gas one? Send it to the landfill? Sell it on the used market to someone else who needs a stove? But then it would still just be being used to burn gas, so that doesn't seem that cool.
Looking at it just from a dollars spent perspective, I'd save $20 a month forever - the $20 I pay to PSE just for being there. So in about 7 years I'd recoup the cost for the stove from those savings. I'm guessing that the actual energy cost would be about the same using electricity.
I've thought about just buying a countertop induction “burner.” it seems like decent ones sell for a $100-$150. And I could get a countertop electric oven for the times I want to bake for about the same price. And just leave my old gas stove where it is and cut off my gas from PSE. Does seem like it would be a little awkward, and my countertop would certainly be getting more cluttered than it is.
So, thoughts on going forward? It seems like this kind of calculation shows up a lot in going electric. If someone has a gasoline car and transition to electric, what do they do with the gasoline car? I've got incandescent light bulbs in some of the outlets in my house. Do I replace them with LEDs and throw the incandescents away, or do I just wait until they burn out and replace the incandescent lights with LEDs? You get the quandary.
I'm interested in hearing people's thoughts. Help me decide what to do about my last gas appliance.
Love this creative idea about what to do with old ICE cars
and just reiterating the point that what to do with stuff that is CO2 emitting is an issue with industry too in a very big way. When they spend money on new CO2 infrastructure they want to get its full useful life before moving to something else.
Oh yes! Now I remember what ICE stands for. I see what you mean about removing or disabling the engines. I guess you might as well remove them to make more space & maybe they could be recycled somehow. Thank you!
Ice wasn’t really appropriate for other than vehicles, but short for internal combustion engine. The idea would be to make sure they were not back on the road emitting co2, but could be moved on rare occasions.
I like the creativity & usefulness. Just a couple of questions. What is an ice appliance or vehicle. I probably missed something in the discussion. I don't understand how removing or disabling the engine would allow them to move to a different location; it seems like it would do the opposite. I'll be interested in hearing what others have to say. Even if there's a down side, it's gotten some brain-storming started--good job, Linda!
What do you think of this idea? We were discussing what to do with aging but not unusable ice appliances. What if we donated our old ice vehicles to be used the way that tiny houses are now used as temporary shelter for the homeless? They would need a parking lot, restrooms and showers and power for heat. The engines could be removed or disabled (to allow them to move to a different location). Then the ice vehicle donation could be used as a tax deduction or tax credit on tax returns. Isn’t that a triple win? See a downside to this?
Loving your thoughtful and creative approach towards living green
Enjoying this discussion, as I have been dealing with the same dilemma on appliances, autos, and vegetables as well. Unfortunately, our appliances are relatively new, so the economic hit is even higher. For the time being, we’re electing to simply drive less rather than sell an ice vehicle that someone else would probably drive more. Had not thought about simply using electric countertop appliances instead of our gas oven. Has merit! On the vegetable front, lettuce is very easy to grow here, and one large pot supplies enough lettuce for the two of us for months, package and pesticide-free. We’re in the process of building a cold frame to extend the season through the winter months.
Good to know you feel nuts sometimes too.
The Buddhists say that life is inherently unsatisfying. For us as humans it seems that getting to a place where everything is just permanently "all good" isn't on the agenda.
Go for it! (Just encouraging you--not giving advice.) If you do, keep us posted on how it goes.
On quandaries: I worry about the little stuff. I can get already washed lettuce that comes in plastic or I can get lettuce in no container that I have to wash. Is it worse to use the water or get the plastic? I opt for the unwrapped lettuce because it just feels better & it lasts longer. I contemplate these very small issues probably every day. I don't have enough money to get another car, stove, or water heater; in a way that's good because I don't have to think about it, except for the guilt I feel when using these things. I sometimes feel there's no winning this one & it makes me nuts.
Congrats on your EV - I'm thinking you will enjoy owning it.
Yes a quandary. Not sure who I mentioned this idea to, but industry faces the same quandary in certain situations. They don't want to throw away a capital resource before it's fully depreciated. A good reason for us to object to new fossil fuel infrastructure being built - industry will lobby hard to keep using it for its useful life.
I guess I've been taking somewhat of a hybrid approach. I shrink from throwing away perfectly good things that emit carbon dioxide - but at appropriate times I'm going to make the jump. Recently I've become semi-obsessed with the idea of calling up PSE and telling them to shut off my service.
Progress report on my "goodbye PSE" project: An induction stove is on "sale" (who knows when things are actually on sale and when not) for $300 less than I've seen previously for that model; and I've confirmed that my kitchen is already wired for electric range. I'm thinking I'll sell or give away the gas range rather than send it to the landfill.
This is a good quandary, John. We think about this stuff a lot these days. We have a gas water heater and gas stove top (the oven portion is electric). We also have a gas grill which we use rarely. Our gas bill this month is $28.
So our plan is to replace the water heater with a heat pump hybrid version. Exploring that now, especially since there are $500 rebates from TPU available. But we'll need to have a 240V line installed to power the water heater. The whole thing could cost up to $2000 with the rebate. The gas unit is 10+ years old, so the sooner we do this the better.
Regarding our stove, because the oven part is electric and the unit is not that old, we're going to let it ride for now. We'd like to be a carbon-free zone, but it's nearly impossible, without spending thousands of dollars attempting to do so. Unless you're generating ALL of your own electricity via solar, you can't do it.
Speaking of unloading stuff that might end up in a landfill, we just unloaded our second car and replaced it with a used EV. Very happy with it and the decision to do it. But it doesn't help that someone else will be driving our old car. Such a quandary.
I love my countertop toaster oven & rarely ever use my regular oven. The toaster oven is big enough for about anything--does not accommodate cookie sheets. I use that & my crock pot for almost everything--more than my microwave.
As for the old oven: here's what I did with my old microwave (it was huge). It was great for storage, especially things that I wanted to keep fresh because it was airtight (don't know if an oven is). One could also store cookware in it, e.g., the new pots & pans you'd need for the induction stove.
On the light bulbs: Before I moved here 4 years ago, I let the old ones burn out before I bought the LEDs. When I moved here, I immediately replaced everything with LEDs. No rhyme nor reason to either of these solutions.
Keep us posted!